A lot of people the world over celebrate Christmas on December 25th every year. Approximately 400 million humans take part in the festivities, making it one of the largest social, commercial and economic events of the year. It all generally begins a day earlier, however, on the 24th with Christmas Eve and continues the following morning with traditional gift opening rituals.
One of the things that makes Christmas special is its power of bringing people, family in particular, together again. Cousins, aunts, grandfathers and even the creepy uncle we all seem to have collectively make the effort to reunite during this time and rekindle the wonder that is extended family.
Christmas is derived from the old English word “Cristes maesse”, which literally translates as Christ's Mass. So, on this day, Christians the world over celebrate the birth of their God, Jesus Christ. However, like most rituals and traditions in Christianity, this is only his symbolic birthday. No one actually knows what day he is said to have entered the Earth.
With that lack of information, early church fathers did what they always have; filled in the blanks as they saw fit. In the early parts of the Fourth century, they gathered and chose the 25th day of December. They fixed the day around the old Roman Saturnalia festival (17 - 21 December), a traditional pagan festivity.
From 354 A.D, nearly all Christians accepted the day chosen for them and have honored the birth of Christ accordingly every since. The only sects to diverge from this norm are the Armenian ones who celebrate this day on January 6th.
While this fact is not really much to fret over, it is further sign of how much of what is believed today has been determined by mere humans. This troubling pattern plagues Christianity; when you don't have the answer, just make up something that sounds right and move on.
From the trinity, a word that cannot be found in scripture, to the very books that are in the Bible; this phenomenon is very prevalent. Being the pattern-seeking creatures that we are, humans finished off the things Jesus didn't tell us but really 'wanted to.'
It saddens me that we could not be satisfied with merely doing what was commanded of us and being Christ-like, living a life of love, forgiveness and the golden rule, but had to go one step further and become an army of Christians. The need for institutionalization may forever be the plight of humanity.
They fixed the day around the old Roman Saturnalia festival (17 - 21 December), a traditional pagan festivity.>> and? Main reason for doing smth like that was to give the people a Christian alternative to the pagan festive's to celebrate. Sure they changed a few pagan festive's to fit the Christian faith, but what does that prove? It proves that the church wanted more people to come to Christianity obviously. Is that a bad thing? Not at all for Christians. Less so for the pagans though.
ReplyDeleteNo one actually knows what day he is said to have entered the Earth.>> Very true. We don't aren't even 100% sure of the YEAR in which our Saviour was born. Why is that? I mean, if God bothered to tell us what the baby was wearing(swaddling clothes) and where he was born(in a manger), why not add a date to celebrate his birth!? I think its very simple....because IT'S NOT IMPORTANT!! God focuses on what Jesus was wearing and where he was born because it's THAT stuff that reflects Jesus' nature character: meek and humble. His date of birth has no real significance whatsoever on who he was. And I also believe that God used this date to do exactly this: test the faith of the true believers and the faith of those who can hide behind any pathetic excuse not to believe Jesus' deity, so that we can see for ourselves how dumb it actually is to hide behind smth like when he(Jesus) was born.
If your trying to tell people that the Bible has adopted and adapted a lot of different cultures'traditions, you'd be right. In fact, we probably got the whole idea of a decorated Christmas tree from the Romans. There are probably countless other things that are VERY pagan-related. For crying out loud, if it was all about keeping the same culture as Jesus, Christians would be wearing robes, robes with no underwear underneath in all likelihood! As a matter of fact, God told the priests not to enter the holy of holies UNLESS they were properly covered in the right areas(and yes I mean the loins area). Obviously Christians today don't wear robes they wear jeans. If God didn't want us to wear jeans cause its too similar to what a pagan cult wears, he MIGHT have said something other than 'dress modestly and respectfully'<<<thats the only thing even close to a dress code. Now I have to cover something I already have covered before: God was NOT all about keeping tradition(Jesus made that pretty clear) or dressing a certain way. He sent Jesus to tell people that He DOESN'T CARE what culture you're from, how you dress, or what you eat, what He cares about is your salvation and that you believe in his Son Jesus Christ. That belief in Jesus Christ THEN DETERMINES what you eat, what you wear, how you dress, and what traditions you follow.
ReplyDeleteBut what you do or how you dress doesn't determine whether or not you get to heaven; its BELIEF that Jesus Christ IS your savior. How much longer will it take for you to realize that God has to change your HEART before He changes your SHIRT?
Also, God makes a point of eradicating all pagan ideals in various texts in both the old and the new testaments. Jesus embraced culture, standing with each other in solidarity AND difference, but He completely condemned and rebuked any kind of affiliation with pagan practices IF it was going to be a stumbling block to other believers.
In 1 Corinthians 8, Paul explains the situation of eating food sacrificed to idols to his Gentile audience. Sacrificing food to idols was a pagan practice, obviously. Paul says here that if a believer thinks that he cannot eat certain food because it has been sacrificed to idols, he should not eat the food affiliated with paganism because of his own conscience. In all actuality, there are no food regulations. God, through Paul, tells people that he doesn't care what they eat. What God, through Paul, tells us that He cares about, is what is in the heart. That is why Christians celebrating holidays with pagan connotations, like Christmas, is IRRELEVANT because Christians are celebrating out of a heart to please God and NOT to participate in some ancient pagan practice. Motive of the heart is what it comes down to. God, through Paul, was very keen on this, and if you take the time to read his epistles, it makes sense. And, of course, he is simply following the Way of the Cross that Jesus demonstrates in Mark 7:18-23, that nothing that goes into the body makes a man unclean (such as food sacrificed to idols) but that it is only what comes out of the body (produced by the heart) that makes a man unclean. Motive is everything. Resemblance to paganism is irrelevant because you cannot decipher the heart. MAN looks at your outward appearance. GOD looks at your heart.
Sure they changed a few pagan festive's to fit the Christian faith, but what does that prove? > It doesnt prove anything on its own, but coupled together with ALL the other things its taken from other cultures, it proves it is untrue and man made. Simple.
ReplyDeleteIT'S NOT IMPORTANT!! > Ofcourse it is. I mean, the year our world is said to have been saved? Very important.Your explanation for clothing being important and the DATE WHICH HE (IS SAID) TO HAVE ENTERED EARTH not being important is at best weak and at worst a cop out. Meek n humble? Gimme a break, clothing does nothing to indicate that. ALL babies are "meek n humble."
And I also believe that God used this date to do exactly this: test the faith of the true believers > This is the same thing i've heard concercing the wealth of fossile evidence which supports evolution.... "ow, its satans way of leading us astray" or "jesus testing how much we believe in him." Im sorry, but thats a horrible excuse for denying evidence. You're doing the same thing here. Its NOT there to "test ur faith", is a fact that you can chose to keep denying.
...idk why u went on that tirade about clothing. But concerning that whole paragraph, there's a big deal about how much of christianity is "borrowed." Again, on its own its simply evidence. Coupled together with everything else, it completely refutes the fable of the bible.
He completely condemned and rebuked any kind of affiliation with pagan practices > Im sure he didnt. But then again, im also sure he didnt wanna start a religion. The ppl (yes, humans) that have created christianity do a heck of a job of taking and claiming pagan beliefs n rituals.
God, through Paul, tells people that he doesn't care what they eat. > Paul...through paul. He never even met jesus. No one who wrote the bible ever met jesus either.
That is why Christians celebrating holidays with pagan connotations, like Christmas, is IRRELEVANT because Christians are celebrating out of a heart to please God and NOT to participate in some ancient pagan practice. > You're missing my point. I already SAID IN THE POST that its not a big deal on its own. But with everythintg else, it lends credence to the notion that the bible and christianity is man made and fabricated.
In all actuality, there are no food regulations. God, through Paul, tells people that he doesn't care what they eat. > Hmmm, really? Yah, you're wrong. See: Leviticus 11:7-8
it proves it is untrue and man made. Simple.>>Simple but you have failed to ever provide tangible evidence supporting your theory.
ReplyDeleteOfcourse it is. I mean, the year our world is said to have been saved? Very important.>> It wasn't His birth that saved the world.lol man. U always were good for a laugh. Stop playing games already. We BOTH know that it has no real significance. Ur just arguing that for arguments sake(unfortunately like u do a lot of other things).
ALL babies are "meek n humble." >> No they aren't. They are cuddly and cute. And once again, thats completely irrelevant; not all babies were born of a virgin in a manger that fulfilled prophecy.
concercing the wealth of fossile evidence which supports evolution....>> what wealth of fossil evidence? Show me just ONE stinking fossil that supports evolution! Come on man, stop playing theses games.
thats a horrible excuse for denying evidence. >>I can't deny evidence that doesn't exist dude.
idk why u went on that tirade about clothing.>> I wouldn't really expect you too. But let me try to put it in a nutshell for ya. God has to change your HEART before He changes your SHIRT.
much of christianity is "borrowed.">> Did I not already say that? Repeating things that I have already said doesn't score points with anyone. Cultures rub off on each other. I went over this already. That paragraph about the clothes and CHRISTmas tree 'n stuff.
he didnt wanna start a religion.>> Actually he kind of did. It's called CHRISTianity for a reason.
No one who wrote the bible ever met jesus either.>> thats just u being ignorant. I know of DEVOUT atheists, and evolutionist friends who would laugh at you for making that kind of statement.
You're missing my point.>> YOU are missing MY point. The borrowing and adapting of traditions has NO relevance whatsoever. They have been changed to fit the Christian faith. It doesn't matter how many there are. Like I said before: if we were all supposed to keep the culture of Jesus, we would be wearing robes without any underwear on!
Hmmm, really? Yah, you're wrong. See: Leviticus 11:7-8>> dude, I'm gonna have to ask you to stop posting verses here man. Ur making yourself look like a fool. Acts 10:9-15; Matthew 15:1-11
Seriously now man, take a couple chill pills before you reply, wait at least an hour and let the words soak in a bit so that u can understand what it is that I'm saying. We keep going around in circles for no reason.
Simple but you have failed to ever provide tangible evidence supporting your theory. > Nathan, you just dont want to accept it. Thats all on you.
ReplyDeleteWe BOTH know that it has no real significance. > The year the son of god is said to have come to earth to provide a life line for us? Hmm, really? Yah, im just arguing for arguments sake here. sure.
not all babies were born of a virgin in a manger that fulfilled prophecy. >>> Umm, yah. There is one. Look up Horus bud ;)
Show me just ONE stinking fossil that supports evolution! > You can be so increadibly ignorant. It's painful. Go online and do ur own research, im tired of showing u tihngs and u saying they arent tangible coz they prove you wrong. Please.
I can't deny evidence that doesn't exist dude. > You can also keep ur faith if u pretend it doesnt exist. Well done.
God has to change your HEART before He changes your SHIRT. > yes, i got that. wonderful. It bares no relevance to whaht we're talking about. I wish you'd stop reciting these speeches randomly and going off tangents. Focus. Ok. Stay with me here bud.
Cultures rub off on each other. > If you're willing to accept that christianity is just a culture, then ive done my job here. Whoopie. (why do i have a feeling ur gonna re phrase that)
It's called CHRISTianity for a reason. > Thats funny. Another word he never said. Or another word thats in bible. More man made propaganda bullshit!? Dangit...
I know of DEVOUT atheists, and evolutionist friends who would laugh at you for making that kind of statement. > I'd LOVE for you to actualy cite sources or make points. Thats what debate is. Get it? Lovely.
The borrowing and adapting of traditions has NO relevance whatsoever > course it does. It proves my thesis that "CHRISTianity" (as u so eloquently like to put it, as if ur making a point) is man made.
Acts 10:9-15; Matthew 15:1-11 > I absoloutly love how i can make u highlight the contradictions in the bible ;)
We keep going around in circles for no reason. > We go in circles coz u never stick to the point. You go off on tirades and never make valid points, you just say "you know many devout....bla bla bla" Focus, k? ;)
I see you didn't manage to take those chill pills. Its a shame really. You really would present much better arguments if you could keep a cool head and drop the cheap insults. Please do so. I've had enough of you trying to turn this into a pissing contest(pardon my french).
ReplyDeleteYou said "coupled together with ALL the other things its taken from other cultures, it proves it is untrue and man made. Simple.">> I asked for proof. You said that I'm not accepting things. Still waiting for the proof.
You stressed the importance of having an exact date for when Christ was born. I told you it didn't matter when he was born because that has no impact whatsoever on who he was. You then told me that I was weak and copping out. Still waiting for how you think that His birth has anything to do with who He was and how that affects the authenticity of the Bible.
You made the claim that no one who ever wrote the Bible had ever even met Jesus. I told you that you were being ignorant and that I had atheist and evolutionist friends who would laugh at the statement.You asked me to cite a source. I am telling you now(and have told you before) that I won't share names on this blog.
You then said that the Bible had food restrictions. I asked you to stop posting verses because you were making a fool of yourself. You told me that u loved how I exposed the contradictions in the Bible. How are those verses contradictory? It's called the Old Covenant for a reason.
Still waiting for the proof. > Read the posts on the blog and my comments. I know it'll be tough, so here's a quick run down. If you DO chose to go back and re read me telling you in greater detail (which i highly doubt) that'd be great:
ReplyDelete1) No one who witnesse jesus ever wrote of him
2) Mathe, mark luke n john are titles NOT authors as im sure you'd love to believe. They were added much later on.
3) A pagan chose which books YOU would deem to be the word of god.
4) Another human chose when ur god would be born
5) I can keep going but im bored. Read the blog.
Still waiting for how you think that His birth has anything to do with who He was and how that affects the authenticity of the Bible. > I already told you, but im learnig you dont neccesarily pick things up the first time. It affects the authenticity of the accounts in the bible because it is a crucial element of the story. The YEAR our supposed saviour came about. EVERY single biography ever begins with a date of birth. The second reason is that it (again, im repeating myself and its boring but maybe you'll open ur eyes this time), on its own, its NOT a big deal, i said that in the actual post, but coupled together with everything else that is "borrowed" by christianity, mainly from pagan beliefs, it proves that it is man made and UNTRUE. Yes? Good.
I am telling you now(and have told you before) that I won't share names on this blog. > Cop out. You have my facebook. Delight me my friend.
It's called the Old Covenant for a reason. > I also remember a guy named jesus, who was a jew, saying that not one word will change till this is all over. Yes? Great.
The verses do contradict themselves, as do many others. I salute you for highlighting that for everyone without my insistence.
1-4) I'm going to start a study of where the Bible came from next week. I'll post why those are incorrect then.
ReplyDeleteIt affects the authenticity of the accounts in the bible because it is a crucial element of the story.>> I still don't get how u think its a crucial element. No offense, but ur explanation sucks. what ur basically saying is "it's crucial because it's very important". Did u learn nothing from Mrs Tingle? lol
not one word will change till this is all over.>> We went over this before. Jesus finished it. He fulfilled the Law. It's not up for debate. He did. Next!
The verses do contradict themselves, as do many others.>> Once again, just because you don't understand them doesn't mean that they are contradictory. I'm very serious about this man, you NEED to take a Bible study(And no, not with your gf's dad) before you continue to post verses. Even a simple one week study(thats like an hour a day, not that much; and for all the time I spend looking at the things you post, I think it's very fair). Things will start to make a lot more sense.
I'll post why those are incorrect then. > I thought you werent posting anymore? Nonethelss, i look forward to hearing them.
ReplyDelete. what ur basically saying is "it's crucial because it's very important". > Lol, yes. Its crucial because its very important. That wont change because ur choosing to think its not. It is.
We went over this before. Jesus finished it. > No, we went over this and u chose to not accept the explanation because it doesnt fit with the world view u already "know" to be correct. Like you do with most things, whether on this blog or anything else that comes ur way.
ust because you don't understand them doesn't mean that they are contradictory. > I understand them very well which is why they are labelled contradictory. Its not hard to notice when you dont have a bias, trust me.
you NEED to take a Bible study > Its getting really boring continuing to tell you what i do and dont read. And this false hope that u seem that if ppl would just read ENOUGH of it, they'll be sold to the myth. Its not true. And it wont happen. Only people like you who either were taught to believe it or simply want to be comforted by the myth will believe in it and over look the eye sores that clearly prove it to be man made.
Like I said through fb, had a change of heart. No one will step up to the plate, and I'm not ready to give up. Call it a second wind, whatever.
ReplyDeleteThat wont change because ur choosing to think its not. It is.>> cop out
No, we went over this and u chose to not accept the explanation because it doesnt fit with the world view u already "know" to be correct. Like you do with most things, whether on this blog or anything else that comes ur way.>> cop out
I understand them very well which is why they are labelled contradictory.>>Exactly my point, once again: cop out
this false hope that u seem that if ppl would just read ENOUGH of it, they'll be sold to the myth.>> missing my point. also is telling me that ur afraid of what u'll find. But you said that ur not. whats up? It doesn't take a lot of time. 1 hour a day. for 1 week. It'll be over in a flash. I've looked at plenty of evolutionist stuff(I know u don't believe me but, ur entitled to ur opinion).
U know? I think one day when I'm back in the States, we should go on a trip visiting the best museums you can think of and vice versa and then we can decide what is true and what is man made. Sound like a plan?
Call it a second wind, whatever > Lol, well welcome back buddy! Its ok, we all give up sometimes. Il try my best to make it last next time.
ReplyDeletecop out > ermmm, no. Crucial and important are SYNONYMS....and low n behold ur denying that. Im not copping out by losing faith in ur inteligence. Im just understanding reality.
Exactly my point, once again: cop out > Lol, if this is how you've ressurected urself than I think you'd help christianity more by shutting up. You're making no sense.
also is telling me that ur afraid of what u'll find. > Ow nathan, i couldnt have put it better myself if i were trying to describe ur refusal to accept evidence and facts.
Sound like a plan? > I dont mean this to be rude, but i would never waste my time and money on you. If you dont accept facts here, why would i dedicate weeks of my life on educating you. Its not my responsibility. And fyi, im not here to convert you, thats nearly impossible with ur stuborness and ignorance. Im here so that ppl can see the silly things your side says.
Crucial and important are SYNONYMS....and low n behold ur denying that.>> my whole point IS that they ARE synonyms. But since that seems to be a valid way for you to justify things, I'll use it too. The Bible is the inerrant word God because the Bible is the inerrant word of God. There. According to how u just justified your point, this statement must be true as well.
ReplyDeleteYou're making no sense.>> ask ur viewers what they think
I dont mean this to be rude, but i would never waste my time and money on you.>> expenses are on me. I was thinking more along the lines of me educating you actually. ;)